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[Essay] Skulltag: Abuse Goes Unpunished [Narrative] 
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:09 pm
Posts: 14
Catastrophe wrote:
The competitive area should be left untouched because the majority of the competitive players are fine with it. Why take the opinions of people who aren't even involved, seriously?


This is a good sentiment. The majority of the Skulltag moderators aren't competitive players. It seems silly to have them moderate the discussions of the competitive scene when they're ill-experienced in dealing with competitive issues. IMO most of the competitive players can regulate themselves without much need for moderation. But then there's always that select few of trolls/idiots who like to stir up drama and ruin it for everyone else by enticing the unusually overzealous moderators on these forums.


Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:48 pm
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Location: Snap-Ko-Lay
Goliath: I've played plenty of priv and I know how things work. Your assumptions are ill founded, quite so. Drop the irrelevant crap and get real. I know more than enough about how competition works to know that actual sportsmanship is crucial to it's survival. Stop trying to drag me through the mud because I will not take your bait. And when you do post please make sure that it's on point and not belittling. Little dot, heh.

Catastrophe: I've ignored these types of responses long enough. Their overwhelming volume is quite dismal. Mockery or not I want answers. And hopefully I will get some from my intended audience. The staff. So far I've been blown off and essentially told the same thing I'm being told here. You know, the kind of response that has no actual backing behind it and disregards the set protocols and rules that Skulltag has long had. I fail to see how the abuse of other players is okay and how I am expected to deal with it.

Blasphemy: To set the tone and explain the events behind what had happened. Nothing less than that. I brought an issue to light, the fact that you don't like my original post and have nothing else to say about it other than it is irrelevant makes your point muddied indeed. I could in turn comment on the under-responsive nature of your post, which addresses nearly nothing that I have posted.

Ænima: There's a fine line between butthurt and fighting back. A butthurt person usually just wants to cry and get attention. I want answers and I want solutions because I want to actually do something about this. Yes I opened myself up to being bashed and it's a risk I am quite well willing to take.

I've been here all along, just because you haven't heard of me doesn't mean I don't exist. Get the "God Syndrome" out of your system as your are not omniscient. Things do escape you sight. I remember a time when respect was the norm and antics this ridiculous were quite rare and quickly put down.

OuterSpace: As I've been saying all along it's out of hand. Get someone who can. And those select few happen to be the regular resident population. I won't ignore it any longer.

Addendum - This was last night's conversation.

Stipsi's Response: http://pastebin.com/gF7B4rWF


Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:18 am
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
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to be honest I don't see any reason for pushing it too far like this, decay and his butt buddies attempted to troll me and ended up making a fool of themselves for the umpteenth time, this is not the first time and neither the last, most likely. Just let them going, all in all I find them amusing.
(unless you're using this as a pretext to become a moderator :\ )


Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:48 am
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Posts: 573
What abuse? We're usually joking around.

Sure, in priv games I might go like, "you're dumb because of X and Y", but soon after I forget about it and so does the other person. There is no "abuse" that is present, if you're regarding the trolling of clans, then I've been there and done that. Back when I started [I], pretty much everyone trolled me and I didn't go cry to the forums, I just got used to it and waited it out, and karma dealt with most of my joke of "enemies".

As for general hostility, you just gotta get used to it, people have tried to get the community to be nicer in the past, and failed. From the top of my head, I recall Metal making a topic about respect or something that barely did anything from my stand point. It's just how people are, and some people just can't be reached via internet. You probably feel like they can, but really, no. I've dealt with ST's biggest derps such as Helten and Danzoa, and trust me they don't change even if you talk to them.

Also, I don't think sportsmanship is necessarily needed for competition. For example, generally US priv is dominated by "blue's ts", and we rag on each other all the time and it's fine, priv goes on in a daily basis. If you can't handle insults hurled towards you on the internet then you are not fit for priv. A good example would be spider, he gets mocked on a daily basis, regardless of him being picked last or being picked on, he'd always comes back wanting to get better, even if he has to sit out. People need to be more like that, honestly.

Lastly, some people may be complaining that we don't let new players play. That's true, you should really go get better in duel or dm, and then try CTF. Get your aim/movement better and then attend priv. Someone completely new or unheard of will generally not get picked unless there is absolutely no other choice. Sure, I might sound elitist right now, but that's just how priv CTF works, it's there to separate people on completely different tiers and have somewhat professional games.

Sidenote: I suppose it's time to be a bit nicer when it comes to last picks.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:13 am
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John Zombie I appreciate your sentiments but do you honestly think they would let someone like me be a moderator? I truly think not. I was merely pushing for a response in that pastebin.

I have new resources to explain things and perhaps make some more laughs throughout this all. As we all need it in the end. And John Zombie, I appreciate you not taking a hostile stance towards me about this.

This will be put to rest soon, don't worry.

Catastrophe: Playing on the same points as before I want to make a mention about Danzoa. He was never impolite to me, he just got really angry at times that's about it. I'm sure you all have seen him from different points of view but I didn't mind the man too much.

Haha, well I understand the priv rules quite well. Don't worry about that. A lot of people forget that there are other servers and that you can start up another priv if you take the right channels and are patient.

I get mocked a lot too as far as skill and priv is concerned and I sit my fair share too. It's no big deal there really. I know how it is. But oh well, some things you can not change alone. You can even hate me for trying. But at least I took a stand. =]

Grandvoid, this morning: http://pastebin.com/qbprTk2f

Mobius on MSN: http://pastebin.com/XCynDcSu


Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:21 am
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
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IcyMew wrote:
Ænima: There's a fine line between butthurt and fighting back. A butthurt person usually just wants to cry and get attention. I want answers and I want solutions because I want to actually do something about this. Yes I opened myself up to being bashed and it's a risk I am quite well willing to take.

To trolls, "fighting back" at something shows butthurt. It might not be correct, but that's just trolls' logic.

Also, stop it with this whole "I'M ONLY DOING THIS BECAUSE I CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE COMMUNITY" thing. If it was somebody else's Finished Match thread that got shat on, you wouldn't have created this thread defending them.

IcyMew wrote:
I've been here all along, just because you haven't heard of me doesn't mean I don't exist. Get the "God Syndrome" out of your system as your are not omniscient.

I never said I WAS omniscient. All I'm saying is that if you were indeed here since before ~95k, then i probably would have ran into you at least once seeing as I played 24/7 back then.

And see? You're doing it again. You're twisting what was said and blowing it out of proportion to make it seem like you have some big giant cause and that everyone else is just ignorant.

IcyMew wrote:
I remember a time when respect was the norm and antics this ridiculous were quite rare and quickly put down.

I remember that time too, but you have to accept the fact that times change and we'll probably never be able to have a community like that again. The overall "quality" of a community as small as Skulltag's is determined by the individuals that are active at that time. Back then, most community members were smarter and a little more respectful. Those kinds of people are still here, but most of them left and their places were taken by spiteful snarky assholes.

IcyMew wrote:
You can even hate me for trying. But at least I took a stand. =]

You're such a hero.




Also, stop posting logs. Nobody reads them, and it kinds gives off a "tattletale" vibe. Just summarize and be like "I also talked to ____ and they said _____".


Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:52 am
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So you're using troll logic to combat me?

If you'd consider anyone else's point but your own you'd realize that I would not have taken it to this lengths if I did not believe in this cause. That's just silly.

You're assuming I used this name before then, ahaha. I most certainly did not and that's irrelevant anyways. You're questioning my credibility in the face of me questioning your logic. Swell.

I acknowledge, respond to, and challenge other points of view. You're the one doing it wrong in my whole hearted opinion. There are those who disagree and I certainly do not see them as ignorant. Perhaps that is your own view. I should say the same to you, stop imposing your own view as mine.

You're one of them. You're not showing me any respect, and for what reason? Because your own points are being systematically taken apart and you have nothing further to argue about? Is that when one would resort to personal attacks and demoralization tactics? You tell me.

Thanks, you might as well have gone the extra mile and said "an". Your sarcasm fills me with joy.

Oh and I asked for permission from those people to post those logs. :]

They're quite on topic actually, offering differing points of view. Don't tell me you're going to throw down the "I don't care." card too?!


Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:03 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Posts: 388
This thread is a complete loss of time. That's what I have to say.

Creating this whole of a drama just because you're being "abused" is ridiculous considering the fact you know better than me how's the competitive scene currently. Accusing the staff for being impassive of fronts in such situations? Seriously?

Many of us have already told you to ignore those famous "abuses". If these really get out of hand, then you will be in need of help. This thread won't change anything, just saying.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:44 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
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Location: Iram Of The Pillars
OuterSpace wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
The competitive area should be left untouched because the majority of the competitive players are fine with it. Why take the opinions of people who aren't even involved, seriously?


This is a good sentiment. The majority of the Skulltag moderators aren't competitive players. It seems silly to have them moderate the discussions of the competitive scene when they're ill-experienced in dealing with competitive issues. IMO most of the competitive players can regulate themselves without much need for moderation. But then there's always that select few of trolls/idiots who like to stir up drama and ruin it for everyone else by enticing the unusually overzealous moderators on these forums.

True points, except for the fact that I (and some others) do not moderate the competition sections since we were asked to stop (and I never did it much to begin with), since we already enstablished that people who aren't involved with it shouldn't moderate it.

Real question time though, to you/Catastrophe/whatever: Now that we stopped splitting all those posts are you happy with the current status of the section? Would you like to see something changed?

Let's try to make this thread have some actually useful posts instead of just personal disagreements.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:55 pm
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Stipsi: Well I certainly got your attention for real now, I'd say that's a win. Now are you willing to truly listen to me?

The way the competitive scene "is" is not an excuse for how it conducts itself. This "That's just the way it is and has to be" rhetoric has no ramifications at all and is not self-justifiable. The bottom line is that people are acting like clowns and it's suddenly become the norm and okay. In public forums and in game no less.

I'm not just accusing I am downright exposing this inaction. If you're not going to do jack then just tell me that you're not, jeeze. But until the rules regarding these types of behavior change to allow mockery and trolling for any reason at any time or none at all I will not back down. Seriously if you want to just turn a blind eye to it make it an official policy.

They've been out of hand this entire time. It's a shame it has come down to flame-fests in the middle of public forums just to get people to even acknowledge what's going on.

It may change nothing but at least I now know where everyone really stands on this. I'm downright disgusted I must say. At least I have the guts to tell you to your face how I feel about it.

If you really feel this is done then you may lock or abyss this. It doesn't matter to me honestly, I've said what I wanted to say.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:04 pm
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Wow, over half of the opening post was fucking pointless. No one wants to know what you had for breakfast. You could have had a bowl of dog food and a glass of bleach for all we care.

So you're upset over decay's topic and the corresponding posts? Sounds like a personal problem because there isn't really a problem with the concept of the shoot validity thread. Yeah Decay is stupid and should have named the topic more appropriately and typed out actual arguments instead of using a shitty mspaint image. However, other than that and the stupid trolls, the topic is within the rules. You name isn't mentioned nor is your precious duel and if I was dynamo, I would have ignored you after the first minute in that log because your 'complaining' has little basis. He said he was going to hand out warnings and his advice to you was to ignore the topic. What more do you want him to do? Call decay's and iced's parents?


@#grandvoid

It seems you do not understand irc etiquette. If you call out someone in a public channel, its seen as you picking a fight in front of an audience. Perhaps if you pm'd him, he would have been more open to listening to what you had to say. Even if the pm method doesn't work there are still a couple of things you can do. You can either shut up and deal with it or leave the channel. That's just the way it always has been. Now whether or not iced is a good hop or not is another issue.


Also, the android idea was fucking stupid. Anyone with common sense would have realized that.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:11 pm
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Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Wow, over half of the opening post was fucking pointless. No one wants to know what you had for breakfast. You could have had a bowl of dog food and a glass of bleach for all we care.


I actually didn't read the thread because of the first sentence. Next time you make a thread please cut all the useless shit from it.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:57 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
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IcyMew wrote:
Goliath: I've played plenty of priv and I know how things work. Your assumptions are ill founded, quite so. Drop the irrelevant crap and get real. I know more than enough about how competition works to know that actual sportsmanship is crucial to it's survival. Stop trying to drag me through the mud because I will not take your bait. And when you do post please make sure that it's on point and not belittling. Little dot, heh.


Oh dear me, however could I have went wrong with that insult. I meant a little dot that turned into an ugly shit stain after that whole SoulSucka incident. Do you really think you're so cool and so just by posting a thread that, and I quote from Rust, "Wow, over half of the opening post was fucking pointless"? The fact that I am even acknowledging you is a complete waste of my time, so far as to I am literally so close from throwing this thread into the abyss for a load of SPS.

Stupid.
Pointless.
Shit.

Tell me, did you seriously make this thread filled with a wall of bullshit over something so simple as "OMG HE WROTE STUPID STUFF ON MY THREAD I DEMAND JUSTICE AHHHHHH", because that's what it sounds like to me. Did you expect to get the entire staff to bow down and address your needs like a baby? The staff may be incompetent, but they are doing their best to make sure that the community gets what they best deserve. WE'RE NOT HERE TO READ A FUCKING LIFE STORY ABOUT YOU EATING SHITTY CEREAL, ETC. Get the fucking broom so deep within your ass out, and sit the fuck down. You say abuse goes unpunished? You actually call out someone on IRC, AND you relentlessly have shown your arrogance and stupidity in the past (Take MXU with combine-what'shisface). I would of kicked your ass outta the IRC had I been there. Also, permission to post logs? I was talking to Dynamo and he specifically had told me that he was not interested in any of this, yet you go ahead and post the log between you and him. Unless I am mistaken then, there is something seriously wrong here, or Dynamo is a big liar. Seriously, stop posting, sit down, and have a martini. You wanted an answer from a staff member, this is your answer. Deal with it or take Mobius' advice and either leave or stay, I could not give a sincere fuck.

Also, Rust pretty much summed up my thoughts on this thread. SPS. Thread locked.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:10 pm
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IcyJes take that ^ as an advice. We don't want to seem mean or aggressive. It's truly evident that there's nothing we can do in situations like those, so just chill out and ignore the morons around the community.

In all honesty, I thought you were smarter.


Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:20 pm
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